Hello, my name is David Jarboe.

 

And I have lived in Cambodia for eight years. I work with a local NGO here. About 1999 I with my family myself moved to Siem Reap and we began some volunteer work at the local provincial orphanage here in Siem Reap. It was at that time that we met Ming, her name is Thou Raem, we called Ming, and all the children.

When we first arrived, the conditions of the orphanage were very, very bad. There was no working toilet, there was no well and no clean water. There were many snakes and rats, and problems with roaches and deceases everywhere.

The government had not provided help to children except just a few dollars a day for some food and some woods. But with over 50 children this did not go very far and so Ming depended on individuals who maybe walk by or maybe tour groups who come by from time to time to help to give money and help…. We could see that this was not enough, that sometimes there were groups who would come and give money and help to provide some rice and some food whatever for a while, but there were many months no one would come. And it was very, very hard for them.

Children were able to go to school, at the school next doors, and this was good. But very poor health, many deceases, rash and …

And I think that a big problem was a lack of good hygiene. There were on the property…

The whole property, they say, belongs to the orphanage. But they pushed children and Ming back to the back corner into just two rooms. All the children had to live in two rooms because someone had rented out other space to other people for money.

So when we came, the first thing we did, we provided a new bathroom and new well. We did this just with personal funds. And very soon there were friends and other who heard about this. They began to give them money to help to tore down kitchen area.

Kitchen area was just a woods structure over a big muddy pit full of rats and snakes and… There were scorpions. And so we came in and we tore down kitchen area. We built it in rocks and built above that. We also tore down this pig pen and area chickens. There were rats, everywhere there, and roaches hundreds and thousands. So we tore down, we rebuilt that also, we also began to renovate the facilities of buildings.

 

It was that time we know that someone from the Ministry of Social Affairs sometimes would organize for tour groups, Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Singaporean and some European groups to come through and they want to make the children to the front of the property where they built the area stage, they would make them to dance, Khmer dance and they raise money. The problem was that not one dollar would ever go to help the children and that they just used the children to give donations and then the people who gave money would think that the money was going for children, but it never go to the children.

So we began at that time, we decided to sign a contract. And I put it in the contract of our organization, we did a contract.

And we asked the Ministry of Social Affairs to sign it and Provincial Governor to sign it that, if we begin to develop the property and help to make it nicer and provide bathrooms and showers, kitchen and renovate the bedrooms and everything, we signed in the contract, it says that they can never sell this property or push the children off of it und use for something else unless they have written consent from us because we knew that … if we did not have contract, this would happen, because they have already done it, already pushed the children into the back corner. So we started to do the development there.

And after several years, we built kitchen, we built bunk beds, we repainted it, provided mosquitoes nets, provided baby beds and nets, two motors, refrigerator and other things.

There were other individuals who came during that time help provide a lot help as well.

So people who do not live in Cambodia, do not understand the way people live in countryside. They will come and say: “Oh! These children are so poor”. But if you live in Cambodia for a while and travel in the countryside, you see that the children at the orphanage are better off than 99% of other children. They have good education, they have good food, they have good place to stay. But it is not because the Ministry of Social Affairs helps. It’s because the help came from outside. So we were happy about this. We also, we began to ask them ? because we are Christians, our organization is Christian ? we asked the orphanage, we asked the director and got approval of Ministry of Social Affairs, if they let us come in once a week and just do a Christian program for whatever children want to come. And they agreed. “Yes, no problem!” So we begin to do this every week also. It was a lot of fun.

We sing songs, we tell Bible stories, things like this. We never make any children do this. They don’t have to believe anything. We just give them opportunity to hear about Christian faith. And then at the end we pass out food and fruits. And any of all children of the orphanage, even the children that live in the front, even if they don’t come to the story, we still give fruits because we knew that they never got fruits.

Very soon then Bangkok Airways began to come and they began to provide some soups and some food. And then some other women from Australia came and they began to help to provide some rice… also. And it was very good. We were so glad that others were beginning to provide food. It was very good thing.

 

Well, 2004, our organization was to go to Phnom Penh. So we had to leave and we left the orphanage, left the children. It was very hard. We all cried, hugged each other because we loved children like our own children, loved them very much. I was in the orphanage maybe two or three times a week, every week for almost five years. So I got to know them very well.

I want to say also that… After I left, then another organization came and they want to buy the orphanage and come in, take over and build a new facility and provide better education and everything. When I heard about this, I was very happy. Wonderful! Because we had to leave and we would love to see the children receive everything good they can receive.

But it was not long before, we began to hear stories and children began to call us in Phnom Pen and say: “hello, David. There are problems. The organization or someone, they are telling lies about Ming, about Thou Raem”.

They are saying that she is keeping money that people gave. They are saying that she beats children. They are saying that she hires witch doctors. They are saying all kind of things. And children called us and said: “This is not true”. They said a few of older boys, one of the girls left to join this other organization and left the orphanage in the back to go to the area of new organization in front. But I knew these children. I knew the boys and I knew that they were troublemakers. Ming did not raise them since they were small. They came in when they were older and they had stolen money, they had done a lot of problems, and they left. And it was good. They were not good children. So I understood that then they said: “Oh! These children were giving reports that Ming was doing all these things” and I knew these were lies, that someone told these children to tell these stories. Maybe paid him, given him promises.

If you ask other children from the orphanage, they would tell you that those children were troublemakers and these are lies, they are not true.

The other thing: If you go to the orphanage, one of the things over the many 5 years that I saw, when I went to the orphanage, I saw 50, 60 children, the most well behaved, emotionally well adjusted, good well being. They help each other, they love each other, they obey her, they are responsible.     

These are not the signs of children that are being not abused? These are not the signs of children who are not manipulated? They are healthy, well adjusted children. She has done a wonderful job. I have been there. When she had to discipline the children, when one of them had beat and hit another child,........ she just spanked the children like all parents spank children. That’s all. I have seen it many times. She never once in all the five years I’ve ever seen her be abused, be cruel, be ……… the children. Never, Never! And if anyone know, I would know. And my staff, my Khmer staff, that has been there almost every day sometimes, doing projects, building and stuff… They never reported, there was never any abuse, never any ill-treatment like that.

So I know that these are lies. So this organization came in, I think they are good organization. I think they want to help the children. But they are believing false reports. And they think, because they came in a few months, and because of some testimonies of some children I have left, “Oh! We have witnesses, all these true witnesses”. They are not witnesses. You ask the other children! You ask me! I was there for five years ? not five months, not five weeks, five years!

I was coming and going. I never saw these things. These were false reports.

 

And I say this also. I believe these reports are coming from some individuals, some corrupt individuals inside the Ministry of Social Affairs. Because years ago in 19…, maybe 19.., no, it was 2001 or 2002, Ming, Thou Raem, she came to me one day and she said: “there was a woman and she comes to the orphanage. And she wants to help to find homes for the children to adopt” and Ming has told me many times: “I would love for any of the children to be adopted to the foreigners go out for a better life” ? she has no problem with this. But she said: “I have a bad feeling with this woman. David, would you give me advice?” And I said to her: “Who is the woman?” So she described her. I recognized this description. There is a woman, drive up in a nice expensive car with her own driver, come walking and ………… “Do you know her name?” She said: “I think her name is Loen.” I said: “That is wicked woman. Her name is Loen Garindo” and right now she is in a prison. Now she is in a prison back then she is not.

But she, I know, is involved in trafficking children. She bought and sold children. And sometimes she would buy children to sell them to sex-slaves. And sometimes I heard reports that she would send off to Burma and other areas.

And we have many reports from people who have tried to research this woman, tried to catch her. Now she is in a prison for what she had done. And I told Ming at that time, this was many years ago. “Ming, do not work with this woman. She is working with the Ministry of Social Affairs, with some individuals, with some people, some corrupt people inside the Ministry of Social Affairs” and I said “Don’t work with this woman. She is wicked woman. And she is not career about children.”

 

So Ming, she told me the people at the Ministry of Social Affairs and she told them: “Get off my property. Do out of this place…”

From this point until now there has been people inside the Ministry of Social Affairs, I don’t know who they are. But they have been spreading lies about Ming, trying to get rid of her because she stood in the way. She caused a problem. And they could make a lot of money because every child that was adopted to Loen Garindo. They make, Loen Garindo makes 15000$ per child. And people, corrupt officials, would make 500$ or 1000$ per child. And so they were angry with Ming and they want to get rid of her. They would try to come up stories about her.

So now these stories are told again about her, false reports. I am not surprised. Because the organization that has come, Sunrise Children’s Village, they are working with the Ministry of Social Affairs. And I believe the people, the corrupt officials inside the Ministry of Social Affairs, are trying to get rid of Ming again, because they think that somehow, if they work with Sunrise, maybe they would get money. Ming, she would be a problem.

And I believe this is … problem. Ming is not a bad woman. She is a hard woman. Yes! Ming is a hard woman with reasons. She is a hard woman because she has taken care of these 50 children for almost twenty years with very little help at all from anyone, from the Ministry of Social Affairs, from the government. So she has to be a hard woman, she has had to become a very hard woman to protect her children. And so now they want to get rid of her? They want to force her off of her property. They want to separate her from her children. They want to say, she is an employee of the government, she has no right. They kick her off.

I do not believe this is right. This is wrong. She has raised those children and much of the support that she got to raise them, it did not come from the government.

So she is the mother. She loves them. She loves them. And they love her. And it is not right to force her to be separated from her children.

And if, I believe, if she is forced to leave the orphanage, - the children, they would go with her -, and if she is forced to leave, then the Ministry, the government, they or sunrise, someone must provide her with a piece of land that is close to the town so the kids ride bicycles to school, they must provide her with a land and with a large house, a well, water and line of electricity. They need to provide all these things because she has been there from 1988 before UNTAC came.

And I believe she has right and she must be protected, and those children must be protected. She has done no wrong. These are orphan children. And good people around the world should come to help them.

 

(Now we had a meeting yesterday with Sunrise. How do you think about persons of sunrise?)

I think that the people at the Sunrise Children’s Village, I think they have good character. They wanted to help children. Yes. But for them to say, we want to help the children, but we don’t care about Ming, we want to get rid of her…. We don’t care about… I think this is wrong.

You can not love children and not love the mother. You can not do this.

You can not say: “Oh! We have the children.” But you throw away the mother? If you have this sticking that you do not understand, you do not love children. So in this they are wrong.

I believe they need to do everything they can do to make a way for one, for other, for Ming, Thou Raem, to stay with the children and to have a right to stay with the children. And on contract it says that they cannot get rid of her because she is the mother. And they would not believe this whole story. I think they need to find out who the corrupt individuals are, who are telling spreading lies, these false reports. Get rid of the person that is the person who is the problem. They are the corrupt officials.

Or they need to insist…, they need to work with the government. They need to say, if you… it is the government’s responsibility. They need to help ? I believe this organization, if they want to take over the property, they need to help Ming and the children to find a good place to live. This Ministry of Social Affairs, they say: “Oh! We have provided her with a piece of land, 15×20 m, with a house. And Ming, she showed me a picture. Ah! It is a small little piece of land. The house is a piece of junk. They use junk wood to make a pretend house. Not even poor Cambodian man wants that house.

And they say: “Oh! That is for Ming and all children”? It is… it is unjust. It is a terrible thing! If human rights groups come and see this land and see this thing, they would condemn it. It’s an awful thing to do. So that is not acceptable.

So I believe that the Ministry of Social Affairs, they have responsibility, if they say: “Ming and children have to leave”, they must provide a land and a good building and electricity and well and water, bathrooms for the children to live because they have been there since 1988.

No.2. if not, I believe that Sunrise needs to help this, if they want to take over the orphanage, help this. Or Sunrise must work out an agreement with Ming that she is satisfied with that so that she can stay and work with Sunrise. I don’t think that it is impossible.

I think the problem is that Sunrise has listened to many, many false reports and so they think that Thou Raem is too difficult. They think she is a very difficult woman. But she is not. Why is she not difficult for me? For 5 years I worked with her.

Whatever she had need, she never asked me for money. She always say: “David, would you buy some formula for babies? Don’t give me money. They will accuse me. You go and you buy.” She has needed bathroom. She did not take money. She said: “David, You build it.” I would build a bathroom. We built playground. We built bunk beds. We built new…. She never wanted money. This is not a corrupt woman who wants money. If she wanted money, she had taken money and then gone a long time ago. You can not pay someone enough money for twenty years to live with these children ? during floods, during rainy season, during malaria-season to stay with these children, during the night, rocking them, taking care of them, feeding them, changing them when they mess their pants…

You can not pay someone enough money. If she wanted money, she would have hired someone and live in a fancy house. She is there because she loves the children and they love her. I believe that the government and Sunrise, they need to do justice for her and children. Sunrise ? I do not believe that it is a bad organization.

But I believe they have responsibility. They have responsibility to make sure that they either make a contract with Ming, that is good, so Ming can stay and children can stay; or they make sure that the government, they work with government, provide good land that is near town, good facility in a house, well and water like this thing. So they have some place to go. I believe that is only just. Or they find some place else. But they can not kick off Ming, Thou Raem and these children from their property. That is not justice. These are orphan children. They can not do this. That’s not justice. So they must find a solution. And a solution is not just say: “Oh! We have no responsibility. That’s someone else’s job”. I believe they are good people that understand human rights. That…they will want this to happen to them, will not be satisfied unless the children are taken care of. So, that is my opinion.

 

(Before Sunrise can kick out Ming, they now so to say blockade the orphanage. If someone wants to come, they can not go inside. How do you think of it? )

One of the reports they came to us in Phnom Penh, the children call us on the phone and they were, some were crying. And they said: “we need your help.” They said, this organization came, Sunrise Village, because Ming would not agree to what they want to do ? Ming, they offered her a job. They just say: “we let you be one of the helpers.” She said: “No, I am a mother. I must stay with them”. And she was afraid that they would hire her and then they get rid of her later. So, she would not agree and so they became very frustrated. And they decided to force Ming to agree, to force the children everything….

They turned off the water and electricity to the property for weeks. And when I heard about it, and I said: “No! That can not be true”. An organization like this I cannot….. They would never do this thing. This is … this is evil thing! And so then we did some research and find out that. Yes! They did it! They did turn off electricity and water to the children to try, I mean, they lay siege to the orphanage and cut it off. This was an awful thing. So when friends like Ito, Bob and others talked about this, we finally realized, this was bad thing to do and turned like she back on.

But Ming, she decided, she did not want to do this more. She hired electricity to come and run in separate line. So, they would have own electricity and not through this organization. So, they said: “Oh! She was bringing in laundry from outside, doing and hiring in the neighborhood, and they were paying electricity….

That is just crazy. I asked the children about this and they laughed and they said: that is a false story that never happened. And then I say, will you know, if she can not get money, they would cut off the front, put soldiers in the front, put guard in the front, do not allow visitors to come. So that she can not get money from visitors, from tourists to help the children. And I said if they are going to cut off like this, lay siege around the orphanage so that she can not get help from outsiders, would then maybe to do laundry for people in a village is a good idea. She is just trying to be resourceful. So, it is not bad thing. Even if she did, children say she didn’t do it, but even if she did, it’s not…. That is not a bad thing. You can’t blame for her. They cut off… They still have a guard in the front of the orphanage, do not allow tourists to come in unless they have written consent and I have to go to this orphanage, even come in visit, I mean, in the children. I think this is wrong also. I think this is only bad for this organization. And this is going to give them very bad name. They need to find another way to solve this.

Witness of Mr. David Jarboe 23. June 2005